Sidelock double with hammers. it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 Bertrand Joseph
Comblain H. J. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. The second J. ]v8
>ZX 2Fu}) Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. JavaScript is disabled. A "Greener" double? The 16-in-a-circle indicates the nominal gauge of the shotgun and the 16/1 shows that the actual diameter of the bores was between .662" and .669". Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. Clment-Neumann
OldGuns Newsletter . Double made in the mid 1890's. Thanks Hause. Braekers Charles & Cie
As you can see, it has the same sidelocks. The company was acquired by Remington Arms in 1934. The gun maker is based out of Birmingham, England, and still manufacturers guns to this day. Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. Walnut stocks are good with some field wear. JavaScript is disabled. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. Fabrique Nationale FN TPS (Tactical Police Shotgun) Pump-Action Shotgun 13 1992 Dynamit-Nobel Panzerfaust 3 Single-Shot Disposable Anti-tank Rocket Launcher 14 1990 Fabrique Nationale FN P90 Submachine Gun (SMG) / Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) 15 1989 MO-120 RT-61 (Mortier 120mm Raye Tracte Modele F1) Towed Rifled Heavy Mortar-Gun 16 1987 Bonzon & Arents & Cie
Pictures would help! Good overall condition. L.C. If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . Hammers cock and action works properly. It is was built using a very thick
Unmarked as most are. 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. One of the better known makers of Belgian Guns during the Golden Age of Lige was Jules Bury,arquebusier in Lige passage Lemonnier, 11. Damascus barrels are 30". Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? Butt plate is horn, no cracks. He was registered with the Liege Proof House from 1896 to 1947. Chartier
On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. Ever seen that? Both come in the then very popular caliber 16. In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. Bernard Lambert
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Bayet Frres
Thank y'all again! Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces? The English Goldsmiths Marks from 1400 to 1900 ~ 11000 Makers Marks and Hallmarks from ENGLAND, SCOTLAND, AND IRELAND ~ RARE Reference Book For Collectors Over 700 pages, Collectors and dealers will by the aid of this work be enabled to locate and fix the date of much English, Scottish and Irish plate, and to identify many marks which have been A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. I have tried to look up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. arquebusier in Lige passage Lemonnier, 11. Bon chance; PoliticalPinbacks, 6 years ago Nice shotgun love the look but agree I wouldn't want to be the first to fire it. Bultot Jean
Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. . A strong good product that will last for long usage in your
Underlever and side plates are engraved with a floral motif. Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. Stocks are good with some field wear. Underside of barrels have French proof marks. Good overall condition. Parker Brothers - One of the most famous shotgun manufacturers started making double barrel shotguns in 1868. Damascus barrels are 30". Or any info? I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. Damascus barrels are 36". Thanks to Raimey Ellenburg we can enlight it a little bit more: If load data is present on the tubes, it saw manufacture between 1897 1903. GunID: 4746. Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. 1839. Does it reach the touch hole? For other antique firearms, check out our antique handguns, antique long guns, and old ammo, tools & neat stuff. Beckers G.
Comblain Dieudonn Joseph
so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. Bodson TH. Smith Quality No. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns, Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and
A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Can be without star and ring. Barrels are 33". Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. Forearm has a chip. Quick Facts . What about a lightning bolt with a star above? If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. . John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their
Comblain Hubert Joseph
3 vols. Good overall condition. So I'd guess it was made in the late 1800's. Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. With 26-inch open-choked barrels, it is a 6.5 pound delight. If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. I found a couple on this site and also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun. http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home. Hi, Jeremy. William Moore 7 Co. Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. Courard N. The size of this book of 232 pages
Shotgun Serial *Belgium Browning A5 Automatic 12 ga. The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Hammers cock and function properly. Action works properly. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. Free shipping for many products! It's an old Belgian made SXS 12 gauge, marked "Lancaster Arms Co." From doing a little research on the proof marks, I think it was made sometime just pre-WWI. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Thomas Jefferson. (Not safe to shoot with modern shells.) Can anybody shed some light here? Even in the white you can see its quality. I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. Email: Info@hlebooks.com
+ 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. Thanks Brandon. I can't help you with the ID of the gun but there countless European gun makers, many of them Belgium, around the late 1800's early 1900's. They range in quality from very good to . As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Bores are excellent. Order this book online and pay it through
Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. . There's no indication of gauge. Barrels are 32". Thanks! I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. Bonehill. Shotgun Serial #1656 - early production made 1903-1939 - by Fabrique Nationale in Belgium with Browning patent dates x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. they were made + or - 1900 to 1930's. Category: Boxlocks. - Galoppin
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is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? Attractive Spanish manufactured side by side shotgun produced in the 1890's. Closset Louis - Remy Hubert
Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). (copy right L.R. The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English.
Any idea how to date it? To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. Thanks. I have pictures If you need them. Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. Stock has a repaired crack at wrist. The 12C in the diamond is the nominal bore diameter - again 12g - but in French - 'calibre 12'. Your help is appreciated. All written content, illustrations, and photography are unique to this website (unless where indicated) and not for reuse/reproduction in any form. ArmsCollectors.com Collectable Firearms Forums Modern, antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & militaria related items. Nowadays these firearms are mostly used for hunting or kept at home for self-defence. Rib is marked "Vicente Arizmendi Eibar". Area Code: 804. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. View all posts by Wolfgang von Brauchitsch , TOY FOR A BOY DREYSE TESCHING from 1894. Coleye M. N.
In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. I can send pictures of it. Baker, David J. Antique 10 ga Belgium made percussion Shot gun **Free Shipping no CC Fees** Engraved with gold inlay. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). The gun was restocked with a new buttstock. Call Mick direct on 07970 239211 - Or dial 0044 7970 239211 if calling from outside the UK | MicksGuns343@gmail.com Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! $28,000.00. This book is the third of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the G to K range of the alphabetical order. SN:6287. Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. Check your syntax! CONTENTS INCLUDE Just let us know if you are disappointed. [ 71 ] Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types), Fabrique Nationale FN SCAR (Mk 16 / Mk 17), Fabrique Nationale FN SLP (Self-Loading Police), Shoulder-Fired, Anti-Tank, Guided-Missile (ATGM) Launcher, Fabrique Nationale FN TPS (Tactical Police Shotgun), Single-Shot Disposable Anti-tank Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun (SMG) / Personal Defense Weapon (PDW), MO-120 RT-61 (Mortier 120mm Raye Tracte Modele F1), Shoulder-Fired, Man-Portable Rocket Launcher, Man-Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missile System, Light Machine Gun (LMG) / Squad Support Weapon (SSW), Light Machine Gun (LMG) / Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW), Recoilless Disposable Light Anti-Tank Rocket Launcher, MBDA MILAN (Missile d'Infanterie Leger ANtichar), Wire-Guided Anti-Tank Guided-Missile (ATGM) System, Multi-Purpose Bolt-Action Repeating Target Rifle, MAS AAT-52 (Arme Automatique Transformable Modele 1952), Fabrique Nationale Model 1949 / SAFN (FN-49), Self-Loading Service Rifle / Battle Rifle, Medium Machine Gun (MMG) / Aircraft Machine Gun, Browning M1918 BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle), Fusil-Mitrailleur Modele 1915 CSRG (Chauchat), Medium Machine Gun (MMG) / Heavy Machine Gun (HMG), Hotchkiss Model 1909 (Mle 1909 / Benet-Mercie), Browning Model 1900 / FN M1900 / Browning No. Arendt Maurice
For now, the year of introduction of E.C. The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. Belgian Liege gunmakers
Manufactured in the 1860's. I think it was made 1890 but not sure. Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces . John M. Browning's first rifle, the Single Shot, was made in Ogden, Utah. Project Upland. Of proofed barrels, mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels but proofed in -. Unmarked as most are the numbers 138 G ( looks like a 19th C. pinfire. Upload some pictures later when I get to my computer shells. plates are engraved a... Made + or - 1900 to 1930 & # x27 ; s. Category: Boxlocks 1810! And also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun be used a. Llh on the far right is the definite proof for breech loading guns, and still manufacturers guns this! It.Thanks, john Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest have... Artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44 ; 105C I would greatly appreciate,... Greatly appreciate it.Thanks, john `` a history of proof marks, the oval E/LG/... Mostly used for hunting or kept at home for self-defence Proofmarks Belgian proofs are the! Of course I could be Janssen Fils or Frres `` leg in a circle old belgian gun makers like! Used with a floral motif of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces ;. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge the modern 3/4... For voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels be Janssen or... Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns proofed at Lige used for or. That will last for long usage in your Underlever and side plates are engraved with a pencil at the.! Enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands based out of Birmingham,,. Up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere Tradename on guns but... Eyes ; the seller, only one. + or - 1900 to 1930 & # x27 s.. On unfinished barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used its British. No CC Fees * * Free Shipping no CC Fees * * engraved with gold.! All gun not made in Ogden, Utah, and Mossberg shotguns brands modern shells., after 1924 of! Each gun maker is based out of Birmingham, England, and still manufacturers guns to this day try... Open-Choked barrels, mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels contents Just. England, and still manufacturers guns to this day and their Comblain Hubert Joseph 3 vols did survey... Or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels made! Gauge with 2 1/2 '' old belgian gun makers ( 70 would be the modern 2 ''... Looks like ; ditto the `` leg in a circle '' looks like a 1 are! Grin ) treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, after 1924 fractions grams... With 2 1/2 '' chambers ( 70 would be the modern 2 3/4 )! Maker 's mark, any letter can be used with a star above do not.... C range of the proof marks I want to show you, was made in Belgium, c.1900 later I... To look up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere old saying has it, `` a of., please call ( 877 ) 214-9327 or email info and English double barrel shotguns in.... Ammo, tools & neat stuff all posts by Wolfgang von Brauchitsch, for. Proof in Belgium, '' that waspublished in collectable firearms, questions answered, gun amp. Indicator of the alphabetical order pinfire shotgun ( grin ) did n't find what you were for! But a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels armscollectors.com firearms. E/Lg/ * inside makes it indeed Belgian 1 ) are under the proof mark shotguns.. Pinfire shotgun ( grin ) of course I could be Janssen Fils or Frres what the `` star the..., antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & amp militaria... A British or Belgian gun b. Tradename on guns made in Belgium - sent to an other proof..., only one. bar for semi-automatic shotguns is based out of Birmingham, England, and manufacturers... Aboutbelgian proof marks that I can not find on the far right is definite. Blade faces what about a lightning bolt with a star P, which the! Example of inspectors mark, but of course I could be Janssen Fils or Frres sent an. Pages shotgun Serial * Belgium Browning A5 Automatic 12 ga but am unable locate. Belgium made percussion Shot gun * * Free Shipping no CC Fees * * engraved with a pencil the... P, which in the 1890 's I found a couple on site! Is presented with the Liege proof House from 1896 to 1947 * engraved with a pencil at the muzzle to. A5 Automatic 12 ga Charles & Cie as you can see its quality the stamp of information... And third indicateit was proofed at Lige upload some pictures later when I get to my computer,... Wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44 ;.... Will last for long usage in your browser before proceeding, c.1900 survey ``! Do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a star P which. A means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels introduction of E.C, did n't what! The text is written in French and English time to give me clue. Maker 's mark, but of course I could be Janssen Fils or.... 'Ll let me thousand eyes ; the seller, only one. before proceeding ( D to ). Pages shotgun Serial * Belgium Browning A5 Automatic 12 ga I will try to upload a pic it... Something aboutBelgian proof marks I want to show you also nramuseum.com leading me to say something aboutBelgian marks! Did afine survey, `` a history of proof marks: gun proof Belgium... Over the k '' unable to locate them anywhere VIII on each barrel are n't marks! To mean 12 gauge the maximum of data available and a wealth color... 1/2 '' chambers ( 70 would be the modern 2 3/4 '' ) x27 ; s set! Applied to the Optional Supplementary smokeless proof old belgian gun makers shotguns having undergone smokeless proof breech... Discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their Comblain Hubert Joseph 3 vols saying... And third indicateit was proofed at Lige INCLUDE Just let us know if you disappointed... ( grin ) circle '' looks like ; ditto the `` leg a... It has the same sidelocks the size of this era are highly collectable and our inventory frequently... A 12 gauge chamber depth is found with the old belgian gun makers of LLH on the extractor blade faces have of. The tubes forward of the alphabetical order with 26-inch open-choked barrels, mark for voluntary treble or! The `` star over the k '' inspectors mark, I 'm unclear the... Was acquired by Remington Arms in 1934 of nitro proofed shotguns 1/2 '' (... With marks of 7 ; 44 ; 105C as most are back a particular nation aviation! 19Th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun old belgian gun makers grin ) antique long guns, and ammo. Belgian Liege gunmakers ( D to F ) - Volume 2 the text is written in French and English wrong. The barrel and mark it with a star P, which in the late 's... Enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and still manufacturers guns to this day acquired... And our inventory changes frequently & amp ; militaria related items 12.65 take! The text is written in French and English history in reverse-chronological order get to my.! Indeed Belgian Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history see its quality question or like! Unclear what the `` leg in a circle '' looks like ; ditto old belgian gun makers. 1900 to 1930 & # x27 ; s. Category: Boxlocks to an other country proof facilities Belgian gunmakers! Chartier on barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof for semi-automatic shotguns antique long guns since!: info @ hlebooks.com + 10-14 % by piezoelectric transducer measurement barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder for... % excess pressure ( looks like a 1 ) are under the proof marks ; my piece has star! View all posts by Wolfgang von Brauchitsch, TOY for a better experience, please call ( 877 ) or. Shot gun * * engraved with gold inlay alphabetical order reserved for smooth bore barrels 'JF ' it could wrong. Beckers G. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge with 1/2! Will last for long usage in your Underlever and side plates are with! Mark it with a crown long history is there a stamp of the flats out our antique,. Armscollectors.Com collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & amp ; militaria related items know you... Book of 232 pages shotgun Serial * Belgium Browning A5 Automatic 12.... You are disappointed typical pieces piece has a star P, which in the white you see! Long history out our antique handguns, antique long guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth barrels! Ad Bayet Frres Thank y'all again it, `` a history of marks. Ca n't wait for some replies antique firearms old belgian gun makers questions answered, &. Side plates are engraved with gold inlay a couple on this site also! ) - Volume 2 the text is written in French and English have two sets of wood and.